ALEX
I was going a lot through the architects, but I'm big on managing expectations with clients. Very detail oriented, through the pre-construction process. We've all been a part of the project where the budget's X, we're going to design this, but then these things aren't thought through, and then we're going to add all these other things. And now we're over budget because of this, and now we have finger pointing and this whole cliché. We refer to that as a blame matrix.

MARTY
Yeah, it sucks. And I hate that the traditional way of acquisition is, who's got the lowest bid? As if that was the bottom line, all that matters. Obviously there's so much more that goes into it. And how many stories do you hear about people going with the lowest bidder, and then all this shit happens because they weren't detailed and thorough, and then they end up being more expensive, and they feel cheated.

ALEX
I think people in the industry have a responsibility to educate. Because why is somebody picking somebody that's cheaper? Either they don't have the funds to get what they want, which is a whole separate conversation in itself. But a lot of the time, people just don't know what the word value means. Especially in this wild west of a world of residential construction. Because if you're not managing risk, all those horror stories, oh, the budget got blown: there's a way of avoiding that, within reason, never entirely, but within reason. But you have to participate in these other processes as a result. So you need to put value in that. And if people don't know that, I'm trying to personally be better at not pointing the finger, and instead saying, hey, I can take some ownership here: did I explain it to you and give you the opportunity to make that informed decision?

MARTY
It's a tricky industry in the sense that everyone has a place where they live, and it doesn't have to be a single-family home. So there's this perception that we live in houses as a general population, and therefore we understand houses. But obviously there's so much that goes into a house. It's a living organism, almost, in the way all of the systems work together. Overcoming that perception is probably one of the number one jobs of a builder, so that everyone has clear expectations and understands the value, especially early on in the process, when you're doing things that aren't sexy, that will never be seen, that are hidden under the drywall. Going with some really great insulation is actually going to make a way bigger difference than the tile selection in your powder room.

ALEX
It's a disconnect of values being portrayed, I think. Every company has their value proposition they're presenting to clients, and a lot of ours is that very detail-oriented, very commercial approach, while also intentionally holding space for the visceral, emotional aspect that is building your home. There's a really arbitrary but also fine line being walked there. I struggled with it, because I built this whole engine, but that engine needs fuel. A lot of times what that fuel really is, is really detailed drawings, and a willingness to invest before the start of construction. If they're not willing to do that, it's really hard. I had a client who bought into it, but there was a designer involved who just didn't. And I realized I have this engine built that runs on gasoline, but if somebody's not willing to put gasoline into it, I might as well be spraying hot air.

So I was like, okay, how do I avoid that? I need to make sure that I am bringing the client to the designer. So I changed how we were marketing, a lot. I had to take a big step back and cut work out in the short term: if this is the long-term trajectory of the company, we have to be doing it now. So I think, with the exception of one project, every single one this upcoming year signed with us before the designer.

MARTY
So you can bring in the best-fit designer to suit the client's desires, you're saying?

ALEX
Yeah. And also, if I'm making these promises, they can't be contingent upon something I can't control.

MARTY
Well, every architect is so different. With some, they're going to come in with really detailed drawings and you're not going to have to ask for a thing, but they're also rigid, and they don't want to deviate. And on the other hand, you might have architects who are a little looser, who draw things on the fly, but it's more iterative, and you can do it in an evolutionary way. Both have pros and cons. Ultimately it's knowing who you're working with in a client, and more importantly, who you're working with on the professional side.

As a project manager, one of my biggest roles is to match the tradesperson with the job at hand. For instance, I know probably four or five really talented steelworkers. If we have a railing to do, I'm going to call one guy. If we have a fireplace surround, I'll call a different guy. If we have three flights of stairs with all steel risers and stringers, that's another guy. Knowing that is so critical to being successful. Getting that team together at the beginning is everything. If you get some dissonance and disconnect there, you're getting in bed for a year and a half, two years. That can quickly turn into a pretty nightmarish situation.

ALEX
I always think the expectation for clients should never be that it's going to go perfectly. That's not why you hire somebody. Obviously there's due diligence and all that, but it's more, when the shit does hit the fan, who do you want in your corner? And a lot of times that comes down to personality.

MARTY
I think the biggest part of the success really comes down to trust. I trust our subs that we've been working with for years, because I know what they're capable of, their commitment to quality, and that they'll ask questions when they come up. I'm not a micromanager. My job is not to breathe over everyone's shoulder while they're doing their job. They don't want me to do that. I empower them to make decisions, and if it's outside of what they're willing to make, or what we've determined is the proper container for them to do on their own, then they ask questions. Either I answer it or I run it up the flagpole. It's a hierarchy, and as long as that's functioning well, you can have a smooth, successful project. But all of that is fundamentally based on trust.

And clients are interesting. Sometimes we've had clients that have been super hands-off. I hired you and we trust you, do your thing. It's us and the architect, and of course we bring them in, we keep them informed, but they're like, we hired you to do the job and we love your work. Do it. I love that. Other times we have clients that are way more involved, and they want to help pick finishes and see layouts and talk to the guys in the field just because they're curious. It's a little dangerous, because we've had situations where that gets a little overbearing, and it ultimately makes the process less efficient, less successful. But we want to meet the desires of the client, and if they want to be involved in building their dream home, they can be involved to the extent they want to. It's their house. They've hired us. Going back to what you're saying about expectations, it's just a need to describe: okay, if you want to be like this, here's how we should approach it.

ALEX
I think we just counted them off, this is the fifth or sixth episode of this I've done, and in every single episode, this concept of trust being fundamental within the whole client, designer, architect, builder, vendor, guy-sweeping-the-floor dynamic has come up. There's a number one responsibility for the industry to bring that back, because everyone knows the horror stories: budgets five-x'd, sorry, here's the bill, or the builder skipped town. That grave was dug ahead of time.

I used to think that the more I knew about in-floor heating or something like that, the better builder I was. And then I realized, I'm not being paid to be the guy that knows everything about that. I'm being paid to facilitate expertise. And setting expectations: if you can refer back to the client and say, yes, you hired me, and at the end of the day we will produce what you want, but you hired us for the expertise. If our expertise is saying this is the successful model, you do have a responsibility as to whether you choose to participate in it.

MARTY
Everybody's asking for what they want. The client's asking for what they want of the designer, the designer's asking what they want of the builder, the builder's asking what they want from the subs. That's one direction of this chain, but it must be met with an equal and opposite force of people saying: yes, we can do that, here are the implications. Or: no, that's a bad idea. We get details all the time where we're like, I think we can do it better, based on our experience, based on best practices. If an architect draws a waterproofing detail around a window one way, and the installer says, no, that's not a good idea, I'm absolutely going to side with the installer. Because they're the one who, A, stands behind their work, and B, spends all day doing that.

I know a lot about a lot, but I am not an expert in all of these things. I've picked up information over ten years of doing this, but I don't know the nuances of how to route a plumbing waste line. I frankly don't want to know. I want to know what I need to know, and the important stuff to look out for. We need to understand the nuances to a certain point, and rely on the people who are experts to take it from there.

ALEX
That's probably a good segue, because I just realized I didn't actually get you to introduce yourself. Who are you, and why are you here?

MARTY
All right. My name is Marty Brodsky. I am a project manager with Buildwell, and I've been working with the company for ten years now. I started as a general laborer, day one. I was laying Ram Board, protecting floors, sweeping floors. I didn't know anything. I'd swung a hammer a little bit as a kid, making stuff at home with my dad, which was great, but in no professional capacity. I came to the trades on a whim. A buddy was working as a trim carpenter, I was between jobs and needed to make some money, so I started working a few days a week, and really came to love the work. Before long I was doing trim carpentry, and if I have a trade personally, it would be that.

I did that for about a year and a half, and then an opportunity came up to manage the back half of a project down in Denver. The drywall had been hung, and it was getting all the finishes in.

ALEX
You got the easy half.

MARTY
I did get the easy half. I was eased in. And I really came to love the management aspect, working with all the different subs and seeing all the different pieces come together. After that, it seemed like a pretty good path, and the opportunity to do my first new build from the ground up came shortly thereafter. That was eight years ago, just about. So I've been managing projects, new builds primarily, ever since. I kind of lost count. I think I've done at least ten by this point, probably more like a dozen. Every one brings its challenges and its excitements, but every day is totally new.

ALEX
Any particular favorites?

MARTY
There are a few. I just finished one up with Nick Fiore in central Boulder. I love Nick's style. It has a lot of trim in it, it's kind of funky, but it really harkens back to some of the classic architects in the Boulder area, like Charles Haertling, and takes some of those details and finishes and brings them up to a modern aesthetic. It's just different. It feels like a piece of art, and I love that aspect. But there are things to appreciate about all of it, whether it's really modern with minimal trim or no trim at all and flat roofs everywhere, or stuff with full-bed stone that has a more classic aesthetic. I can definitely nerd out on the details.

ALEX
From the outside, it's one of the more impressive portfolios around town, for sure. How many projects do you guys have going right now?

MARTY
Active right now, I think we have six, maybe seven. At this point we've got four project managers, and more or less we're each running two-ish, as jobs are coming on or coming off. There's always some flex, where we're punching out on one or just getting going on another.

I feel really fortunate to work for the company. Ryan Wither and his wife Katie started it, and they're incredible people. I have no doubt that the success of the company starts with them and their commitment to quality and doing a good job. That's not just quality of construction, which is absolutely a huge part of it, but the quality of relationships. Starting first and foremost with the people who work with Buildwell as employees. That's where the company culture begins, and it permeates all of our relationships: with the subcontractors, with the clients, with the architects. I think it's pretty simple. We just care. And we also pick up the phone when people call, or return phone calls right away.

ALEX
Easier said than done.

MARTY
I know. This is a relationship business, and I feel so lucky to work with all the people, from the architects to the clients to everybody on the job, from those who have been doing it for decades to those who just started, who are green and hungry to learn. It's an amazing experience, and every day brings new conversations and new challenges, which keeps it exciting.

ALEX
I said this to you before: you're an anomaly to me, in a way. Ten years, same company, as a project manager basically the whole time. I think that's saying a lot of things without saying them. This can be a brutal industry when it doesn't have to be. I've witnessed it chew up and spit out so many good people. You burn out, or something happens, and it's just so unforgiving. I'm curious: what makes you confident being here, in this position, ten years project managing? And what specifically within that environment has allowed you to be?

MARTY
I think it starts with, again, trust. That trust from Ryan, as the licensed general contractor, putting that faith in me as a PM to see these jobs through. Early on, as I was learning, I needed a lot more handholding through figuring out every phase of the project and what I should be looking out for. Over time I've gotten more confident in my own experience, seeing what issues have come up in the past, and how to mitigate and anticipate those.

I think the confidence really comes from curiosity. And this is relevant to building, and to life in general: if you keep a curious mindset and you want to keep learning, you're going to keep learning. And people, more importantly, are going to want to teach you.

We've had a bunch of interns come through, guys who usually just want to come for the summer and help out, and I love it. Right off the bat I'm always like, great, let's do this. And one of two things happens. Either they show a bunch of interest, and they're really hungry, thinking critically about what we're doing, paying attention, learning, which just makes me want to teach them more. Or they lose interest, and it's clear pretty quickly that it's not going to work out. And that's fine. A trim carpenter told me one time that construction picks up the people that don't fit in anywhere else. That definitely resonates with me.

Before I started construction, I was working as a private money lender. We were making loans on real estate, so I was exposed to construction adjacently, through flippers and stuff like that. But I was sitting behind a desk all day, sending out fifty, a hundred-plus emails, shuffling papers, and it was pretty miserable. And then somebody told me I had soft office hands. That kind of offended me, only because it was true. I didn't consciously decide to go into the trades after that, but having worked in an office, being in the field is so much better. And believe me, I sit behind a computer plenty.

ALEX
That was going to be my next question.

MARTY
I'd say I probably spend 50% of the time in the field and 50% at my desk. Ordering materials, communicating, emailing. As a PM, the management is a lot of making sure everyone has what they need. If I spent all my time on the job site, I would never get anything else done, because questions come up constantly.

On that note, it's interesting: I said I've felt empowered to run the jobs as a PM, and I also try to empower the subs. We have a great relationship, and I trust them all now. But when you're on site, it's an easy ask: oh, what should I do here? Whereas if I'm not there, maybe there's a little more critical thinking happening. What could we do, and here are some solutions. Maybe it's still a phone call, like, what do you think? But it's a balance. I want everyone to feel supported, but I don't want to be a crutch.

I do miss the days where I could put in some headphones, listen to some music or a podcast, and just run baseboard. So great. Now it's almost a joke: I'll get on a ladder to look at something, and invariably my phone starts ringing the second I get on a ladder or pick up a tool. And the guys mostly are like, don't pick that tool up. They don't want me to touch the tools. The only tools I have are my tape measure and my cell phone.

ALEX
I think the trades get a bad rap to begin with. Young people aren't ever promoted the idea of it being a viable career path, one where they can make a very good living, with a lot of other benefits too. Granted, I think there are some things the trades do need to work on. This idea of just demolishing people's bodies, glorifying all that, needs to be rethought, and that's where we should be using technology. But how often is it that people think, maybe I'll be a project manager? Maybe I'm not made to swing a hammer, but I think building stuff is really cool, and I can do that, and make money, and be really happy.

MARTY
There's something so valuable about simply knowing how to do things, and knowing how things work. I can't tell you how many people I've met, friends of mine, people I've come across in life, who say, I just want to become a carpenter. Obviously they're coming at it from an angle of, that's so different from what I do, because they're working some desk job. But I think for a lot of people, it would be a good fit. The path that's touted as the way to success in our modern culture is not right for everyone. Going to a four-year college, getting a degree, getting a job likely in an office: it just doesn't suit everyone. Having worked in an office, I could have stuck it out, and I probably would have been a person who has had their soul sucked out of them by 40, and just miserable.

And I think that goes the other way too. Some people have a family history in the trades, or for whatever reason don't think they're capable of going to college, and not that college is the only alternative. I think people just need to be honest with themselves.

ALEX
I'll challenge the way that I was brought up. I have a lot of characteristics that I think are very beneficial now because of it, some of my biggest strengths. But there are also so many things I look back on where I just don't want future people entering this industry to have that. One specific: I remember one of the most common lines ever told to me was, all I want to see is assholes and elbows, gentlemen. A guy said it when we were doing masonry work when I was real young. You stop working for a second, and that's it. And the other thing: when I went off on my own real early, and I could now go to the bar after work, another business owner told me, hey, if you're so tired you have to go home and go to sleep immediately, you didn't work hard enough today. That whole mentality was super toxic, and just not a way to create a sustainable industry. At the same time, I have an ability to work super hard, to really bear down, so there were some benefits. It's not all bad stuff.

But if I was a young person today debating being a carpenter or plumber or electrician, and the message is, you're supposed to be so tired every day that your back's going to hurt: no. We as an industry, and society as a whole, have to recognize, number one, we need those people. We have an extreme shortage. But we also have to make sure we're investing in technology and methods in the field so that isn't the deal, and pushing back on that mentality: we can produce a product, and it doesn't have to be at the expense of somebody's body.

MARTY
Nor should it be. Because ultimately you're going to get a lesser product, and more importantly, you're not going to have people interested in doing it at all. And then everything gets more expensive. That's a toxic feedback loop in itself.

I also think, and this is a greater societal issue, I'd like to see more camaraderie in the trades specifically. When I started, we would all eat lunch together. We'd pull up some buckets or lawn chairs outside, and we'd just hang out. The old guys would tell us stories, and we'd learn, and we'd tell them stories, and they'd laugh at what we were doing. We got super close because of it. Now, more or less, people take lunch breaks and they just mess around on their phones. They sit in their truck, or they sit on those buckets and stare at their phone and watch videos. I hate it, honestly. That is not going to perpetuate this sense of camaraderie and belonging and pride. Maybe you take pride in the work you do, but when you're on a team, and you feel that team, and everyone's psyched on the work you're doing: of course that happens when you're doing the work itself, but I think it's really developed and fostered when you're hanging out. That's a greater societal issue we need to reckon with, because it's frankly destroying our community.

ALEX
Yeah. And it also keeps it a male-dominated industry, as opposed to being welcoming in all aspects, not just management. It has to be pushed back on, and it starts at the top. When you have people constantly trying to get more for less, as an American mentality, what does that mean? At some point you're leveraging somebody within that system to produce beyond their means for less. As long as that exists, there's always going to be some kind of compromised party. Maybe that doesn't exist within the luxury markets of Boulder as much, but the truth is, if we really want to make an impact on the industry as a whole, those are the outliers.

MARTY
It's an interesting question. In this high-end custom single-family home market, it's less of an issue, because people are willing to pay for the quality, and they see it. But that's only attainable for a small percentage of American citizens. You look at what's being built in Boulder: it's not new single-family homes, it's multi-family complexes, condos, but mostly big apartments. There are a lot of issues specific to Boulder that create that situation. But it begs the question: what are we trying to achieve with our society, and what do we want it to look like? Do we want to look at people who care about each other, or just people who have squeezed as much profit out of every endeavor?

I'll give you an example. Currently I live in a condo outside of Boulder a little bit, built in the late eighties. Each townhome has eight units, and there are probably 50, 60 of them across 80, 100 acres. You've got your condo, and then a bunch of green space between them. There are trees, walking paths, a nice pool, tennis courts. It's so clear that quality of life was something that was considered when that was designed and built. Contrast that with the developments you've been seeing in the last five years, where they literally pack in as many units as they can fit, minimal parking, minimal amenities. And from what I hear from people I know who've lived in them, the quality is shit. The cabinets are particle board, flimsy as can be. It's like, what are we doing?

ALEX
It's Boulder's attempt at affordable housing, which is kind of sad to say.

MARTY
What it is, is these national private equity firms coming in to build this stuff, that don't give a fuck about our community. That's the problem. We need people to invest in their own community, local funding and financing for these things. I'm not a finance guy, but it sure seems to me that private equity is gutting our society.

ALEX
Even here. Lyons is my home, Lyons is where my office is. Everything was in Boulder before that. One of my favorite lines ever is that prosperity follows generosity. You have to take care of the people, and life will bear fruit for you at some point as a result. So I try to be really involved in the town, and I try to ask the question: hey, what do we need? Where should we be focusing this energy? It's affordable housing. I hear that. And then I think about it: I build luxury products, and I have every intention of building even higher-end luxury products as a longer-term goal. There's an internal conflict for me in that.

MARTY
I hear you, and everyone's got to figure out how to sleep at night. But the fact is that we live in a capitalist society, and that runs on money. Building nice homes means you're getting people into town who have money. There's always going to be stratification in any community, and that's okay. That's been the case since the dawn of human civilization. The trick, I think, is: are we building homes that are going to bring people into these communities who are going to take that money and invest it into the community? Because if you don't build those nice homes that bring people with means in, you're going to have less capital to go around. It's a reframing of what we do and what the possibilities are.

ALEX
To tie it back to the trades: something that's really interesting is that the cost of construction is going up. Everyone who has sent anything into a permit office within the last 20 years knows it's not the same house as two years ago, let alone 20, with the energy codes and everything else. But number two, we also decided that the painter can make a livable wage, so they can actually put food on their table for a change. We decided that exploiting people isn't acceptable. People who say construction is expensive: it's because they still want so much, but are only willing to give so much in exchange. You said everyone has to find a way to sleep at night. My painter should be able to afford to live in Colorado. They need a fair, honest wage.

MARTY
I think the pathway to getting everybody to appreciate that is by getting to know each other. For instance, I know my painter really well. I've been working with him since I started. I know about his family, I know his history, we have a great relationship. What I really love about my role specifically is that I'll have a long conversation with the painter where we're not just talking about what sheen we want on the walls, but what he did with his family that weekend. And then I turn around and I can talk to homeowners who maybe had a very different kind of weekend, and I can appreciate what they did as well. All the different conversations I get to have on the job site on a daily basis are fascinating, and it means I get to know a whole cross-section of society.

I would love it if more people could be exposed to and get to know a larger cross-section of society. I still have my group of friends I hang out with in my free time, and they're generally a lot like me, into the same things, basically the same socioeconomic status. But at work, I get to see people above and below me in all regards. What's really dangerous is that we get siloed into only talking with people who think and feel just like us. That's a whole other issue, and social media is the accelerator of that problem. If we can find a way for all levels of our community to interact with each other more, we're going to have a much healthier community and society at large. Because when it's not a nameless, faceless entity on a spreadsheet, how much money the painter is getting, to stick with that example, it's actually a person who you see. You're not going to say, I want to beat that person up to get the lowest price. You're going to say, I know him, and I know his family, and I want him to make a fair wage off of this job.

ALEX
Everyone has a story to tell. And within the industry itself, that story isn't conveyed across the line of design and build enough. But number two, I don't think it's conveyed to the client enough. When the client realizes that somebody was on this project for two years, that's a chunk of their life they invested into your home. I want that to be glorified to the point where people go, wow, how incredible is that?

MARTY
Yeah. Respect and curiosity are not contingent upon financial wealth. I can remember the jobs where clients always had a cooler stocked with sodas and sparkling waters, every day. They made sure it was there, and they'd come check in. I remember when they would bring lunches for everybody, or breakfast burritos. It means a lot. It makes a big difference. And I can also remember the clients who never asked me a single question about myself. I'm working, sometimes for two years, on a project, and it's amazing to me: some are incredibly curious about who I am, others not at all. I'm not saying I judge that one way or another. I'm there to do a job, and I'm going to show up and do the job, and I think that's true of all the good tradespeople out there. They don't expect above and beyond, and that's fine. But the appreciation that comes from just the littlest act of kindness beyond the baseline is amazing. You said prosperity follows generosity: when you get just a little bit of generosity in the field, you'll see that prosperity, better attitudes, more focus, better attention to detail.

ALEX
You did tell me that you've deleted all your social media, but do you know who Nick Schiffer is? NS Builders. He's a big builder in Boston, produces a lot of content, big in the media spaces. He has a line that I love. I use it all the time, and I have to give him credit, even though I've changed it a little bit. His line is that he just wants to build cool shit with cool people. I've made it a little bit my own: I want to build cool shit with even cooler people. It's about the people at the end of the day. Granted, I love architecture, I love cool design features, I love even more figuring out how to build them, how to make it the most efficient number possible. But at the end of the day, for it to be sustainable for me internally, it's about the even cooler people you're bringing in as part of that. And it makes me reflect internally that it starts at the top. You can't look at the person at the bottom of the chain and expect them to set the tone.

MARTY
And to that point, I try to do pizza parties every once in a while. Bring a bunch of pepperoni pizza, or donuts, and hang out with the guys. It's little stuff like that, and it goes a long way. They're psyched.

ALEX
I've debated doing this, and I have a project that's currently about to enter closeout: I've wanted to do a get-together party right after final cleaning, where it's the homeowner, architect, all the trades, everyone who was there.

MARTY
It's so funny you say that, I was just thinking about that as well. How important it is to bring everybody together to celebrate the completion of the project. In particular, bringing together the people who don't normally see it done. I'm thinking of the framers. When they leave the project, it's not even halfway done, it's a quarter of the way done. I wonder how many houses they've framed that they've gotten to walk into and see totally buttoned up, move-in ready, and what that must feel like, to know that all of this is there because of their efforts. I think it's pride, and making pride something people can appreciate for themselves. Growing that pride is fundamental to a job well done.

ALEX
I have an appreciation for art, and luckily I'm a better builder than I am at making art. But there was a moment on one of my sites that invigorated me to capture more with photography and video. There was a guy, part of the framing crew, but they were actually installing the siding on this particular project. He was taking all these pictures, selfies and stuff. He's around the same age as me, got a little girl at home. I'm like, what are you doing? And he goes, you want me to take some pictures? My daughter thinks this is so cool. He's so excited about what he's doing, showing it off to his daughter. And I'm like, you know what? This shit is cool. It is really cool, and we should be telling these stories of people who are proud of it. Maybe this is idealistic thinking, but if the client knows there's a bunch of people who take a lot of pride in what they did for them, I think the product, the experience of it, is different at the end.

MARTY
No question. It's almost an energetic thing. I think there's a lot to say for the way people cut, install, and finish what's going into the house. It emanates the energy that was put into it, and you can feel that.

ALEX
To pull this all back together: I'm trying to come up with a sign-off for these podcasts, so I'm going to ask you a question. It can be about work or about your life personally. Have you ever done rosebud thorn?

MARTY
I have done rose, bud, and thorn. Three different things.

ALEX
Rose would be something that's great in life right now. Bud is something that's blooming, something you're excited about. Thorn is something that's weighing on you. I'll go first.

My rose: we just moved back into town. We were up in Pinewood, 15 minutes up the road, a great place, but we'd lived in Lyons before, and we are so happy to be back in town. We talked about community: we're 20 feet from my wife's best friend, all my friends are here, and we're raising children in a place that's so community-oriented. So, incredibly grateful. The bud: I'm really excited about Michael being part of my project management team now. Number one, he's more qualified than me. Number two, I'm excited that I can be more intentional at this company, make it more true to where I want it to be, as opposed to being so in the day-to-day. The thorn: we just moved. My back hurts. I'm tired. Moving sucks.

MARTY
Okay, I'm going to change the order up a little bit. My bud: the last year has been a little tumultuous personally. Things have thankfully settled out and are feeling good, and I'm really looking forward to opening up into what new opportunities might arise for me personally, and how that affects my attitude entering this new phase of life. That's something I'm really excited about.

As far as the thorn goes, I suppose it's in conjunction with that. It's letting go of some things that were not serving me so well. There's still a bit of a grieving process when you move on, when you change and grow into something you want to be, but you still have to cut away the stuff that you used to be.

The rose: I'm just really excited about the people in my life. I've got two boys, five and seven, and they're really excited about being outside, constantly learning new things and wanting to do new things. That's got me pretty jazzed. And I've recently met some new people as well who equally have me excited. I guess that goes back to the bud, that's turning into that growth, but it's already there, and a lot of it is community.

ALEX
Awesome.