Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Build Project. Um, this

is hopefully something that we're going to try to make a little more regular. Uh, actually the first guest on the podcast was Adam Wagner of Hyo Buffalo.

He has his own podcast, Architecting, as

well. Make sure you check that out. Um, also focused here in the front range um, of Colorado. But, uh, Adam's a friend. I

really enjoy talking to him and I both I know that both of us have

I wouldn't say a lot of opinions but are definitely aware of trends in the industry things like that and thoughts that we're always discussing whether via

text messages or maybe just like

casually when we catch up at different events and so I've been discussing with

Adam the idea of having him be kind of a regular guest um you know just making

this the thing where we're keeping

um certain topics ongoing over a period

of time and things. So, if you guys like it, give us some feedback. Let us know and we'll keep doing it. Uh otherwise,

here's a conversation again with uh Adam

Wagner.

>> I think it's interesting like you were we before you pushed record uh you were

talking about the the project you have going on and and

kind of specifically like how

you know you have this kind of long lead time of you've got a lot of projects for 27 um and it's mostly because you're you're trying to get in on the project as early

as possible, right? And and uh and so

that that creates a longer kind of lead time for you but a better fits with the

value proposition that you're you're pushing for. And of course, that's what I prefer as well is like getting the contractor in as early as possible in in concept and

really be a good being a good partner uh

from the beginning. And I hate when

somebody wants to put it out to bed and

have to make these detailed drawings that then get ved afterwards. And

>> yeah, >> I did have an interesting situation recently where I I will definitely not

say any names and be intentionally as vague as possible, but I >> was with Beep and you worked with Beep.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. Yeah. Uh

but it was a first and you know you

bringing that up and even just saying you know like there's always something on anyone's mind in this industry that's like kind of plugged into it as you know because the industry is I think evolving so quickly and the whole bid model is always at the front of any contractor's mind. But I was asked to participate in

this project and it's funny because at first when I was asked they thought I wouldn't be interested because they thought it would be too small for me and I said no you know we're trying to choose clients over projects you know clients that align with our value proposition and things like that and

I then get sent a set of let's call them

DD SDish

um prints and I start to dig through

them start to this person happened not

to be extremely familiar with the Boulder market so much >> and I probably put five hours into it to

begin with um under the interpretation

that I was being brought in to kind of push the idea of preconstruction and informing the the design process. I then

find out during a a Zoom call that the

reason that information was actually wanted was so that this person could give it to the other contractors that

were also being involved in the process and then that we could all be on the

same quote unquote playing field.

>> And

>> I'd be interested to know your thoughts on that because I definitely have mine. Um cuz I'm like that's my proprietary information, you know, that's that that's why I'm so good at or in my opinion why I'm good at what I do is because I'm able to think through these things right now. So why would I just give it away number one for free, but especially to somebody else that wasn't capable of doing it for themselves. >> Yeah. Well, and I and I feel I mean I

feel like it's it is so tough for a for

a client like you know, especially someone who hasn't done a house and which is most clients probably like done

a high-end custom home, you know, when

they're trying to figure out how much this thing's going to cost and the closest thing they can get is price per square foot like rumors that they're hearing around, right? And and we were

talking before like you can hear those small numbers that some realators or

somebody's thrown around of $300 a square foot or 350 or 450 even, you know. Um but then it's like trying to give someone a conservative number of what I don't know. I've been saying 700

to 800 for like a solid house, you know,

but even that is a huge difference of that $100. And so yeah, people are just

grasping for what's that number going to

be, right? But then from your perspective, you don't know what the design is. So you don't know what that

number is going to be, but but it is

like how do we how do how do we start giving people

Yeah. some something to go off of? And

and I've been trying to pitch people lately of like, okay, here's two really

good contractors I like, qualified contractors. just talk to them, interview them, see who you like. They're pro their numbers are probably going to be about the same and then just get them on board and so then you're not

having to bid against each other. But then that also takes a lot of trust from a client's perspective. >> And so yeah, >> so then then then these these these

people that you have right are just grasping for numbers and you know is

this kosher in the industry? I don't know. Let's see what Fernhill numbers are. And >> yeah, well, here was the irony of that process because like what you just said right there makes complete sense to me. If I was on the other side of that table, I always say to people, you know, that so much of this beginning process is about layers of confidence. And some

of those are super obvious, like you just referenced, like, hey, is this even possible for our budget that we

currently have? Are my expectations aligned with that budget? Yes or no? I

think that's a completely reasonable thing to ask early on before you start to really really invest money into the process and the systems and things like that. Hey, is this a person that I want to be hanging out with for the next one,

two, three, four years? Yes or no? That

is a completely reasonable expectation. But what ended up happening in that situation was I actually developed or

worked my way through the design at that point and realized that it could not physically be built the way that it was currently designed for code contradictions. Um, you know, for instance, it was relying on gas permits which aren't being handed out in Boulder anymore. Um, the window designs weren't

working, things like that. And during

the actual client meeting,

they were pushing me to just give numbers, a more detailed number because he needs to know. And my response was respectfully like if if you

want me to dig into that, you know, number one, we would want a pre-construction agreement because that's going to take 20, 30, 40 hours of

time to actually give you a number because you're clearly asking for something that you can, you know, put the bank behind, >> right? believe in. Yeah, >> there's no it would be irresponsible of me or you or anyone else in that situation to just be like

>> 14,000 for that line item like and then

you're going to hold that to the fire and make you know moves that have

financial consequences to it based off

that and when that doesn't turn out to be a vetted number appropriately so

you're going to come back to me and be like why did you say that >> right >> and so I you know I feel like it takes

the team to be like, "Hey, let's focus

on a process because right now,

literally, it's the architect. Metaphorically, we are all holding the pen." And so, if you want it to cost this, while we got that pen in our hands and nobody with insight has a hammer,

let's make it cost that. And as long as

we're holding that pen, we have the power. And most importantly, the client has the power. And so I think that that's how I try to approach it is I

mean I flat out say I don't want to be in control of what your project costs. I don't think that that is actually an appropriate position for me as the contractor. My job is to be your advocate um and to guide you through

this process. if you want this to cost that or this or whatever number it might be, I'm going to give you the agency via information

to design something that we have a realistic expectation can cost that and

and so >> it it's selling two different products I think. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean in what you know

the I hadn't thought of this be well I

had thought of this but like what you know what even if you give somebody a number let's say it's a strong schematic

design set you give them a number and

then it it's in border so it takes another 10 months to get a building

permit uh

how much does that number change just from price of goods changing ing and

labor and everything.

>> It's a really hard one. Um,

you just take it into account just simple inflation, you know, say >> yeah, >> say you just do a really conservative number of 4% 4% over two years on 3

million. >> That's that that's more than, you know, grocery money. >> Um, >> right. >> I think what I try to tell people to do is have honest conversations.

I I have I've heard this um line said by Steve Basic before. You know, you have to tell me three numbers here. You have to tell me what you think it's going to cost, what you want to cost, and what

you're afraid it might cost. >> Nice. >> And we can then develop a risk tolerance policy in the design development phases

to be like, "Hey, you know, Adam, normally we want to go into construction on a project like this with a 6 to8% contingency, but let's get through this early design phase just because we know how scope creep happens. Let's start at 15%. So if everyone's comfortable with that, you know, if there's a design decision where somebody feels like they're missing out on, make sure we bring it to the table. But let's design at 15%. Because the odds are between permit set, CD drawing,

all the fancy, you know, gagen appliance appliances and all that stuff, we're going to be right at that 6 to8% by the time we actually go into construction.

>> That's just experience though. >> That's a guess. Well, and I and I guess that's and I guess that's where I was getting to where, you know, none of us like those contractors who come in with a loan number, get the project, and then oops, okay, actually it's higher. But but there's just a thought that came to

me when you were saying that was like, you know, there's a little bit of of just like, hey, numbers numbers will change and they c they can change. And so like, yeah, I can throw you a number

with the caveat that it will probably change. this ding change. But I guess

that that's that's really where the um

edit out edit out this long pause where I forgot the word where the uh what were you saying the um the 8% to 15%. What's

the >> contingency? So edit all that out. So

that's where the contingency comes in, >> right? um that kind of buffers for that and and have so you're not just throwing

darts but >> um yeah, you know, because it

it's interesting, you know, it's it

yeah, from my point of view and from the client's point of view, it's like just

just give me that that price for a square foot, you know, what is it's 750 or 800, you know, and it's like

>> without without without you doing the 40

30 hours of work, you know, but uh

>> well, this is the other challenge of

>> I've had potential clients walk a job

site and I go, you know, for this

standard, I can tell you like, you know,

pretty consistently we're going to be in this range, but as I want to be the case, I'm also asked

to do very very unique things. Prototypes is probably the most accurate way of describing it. And if it's a

prototype like that,

you know, the assumption is that there there is no like reference data to go off of. Nobody's done it exactly like this. And that that's just the world of architecturally driven residential construction. And so I I've asked people, you know,

when they drive their car,

do you let it go to E, let the light stay on, and then keep driving and then go fill it up tomorrow? Or you the type of person that you, you know, you get down to a half a tank, you see a gas station, you just fill up because that's

how you have to look at this process right now. How close to your

metaphorical e-warning light on aka budgets

do you want to go? Because the thing is

is that you might be in an uncharted territory where you can't choose whether or not you can get off this path. And if you're already riding that eline, you

bear that risk. I can't control that.

You can't control that as their architect. That is their decision. That's the beauty of it actually.

But if they say, "Oh, I don't want to do that." Well, okay. Then let's just fill

up at a quarter tank. And everyone's happy. >> You're still going to get an amazing thing here. You might not get the 17th bathroom, but like we just got there.

>> So, and everyone's not freaking out, yelling at each other the whole time. >> So, so, so the metaphor of the of the E

is just that, hey, I've got $5 million,

but let's say I have four and a half instead. That's the E where you you're filling up a little before. >> Yeah. Or Yeah. Yeah. >> Or you design at that time. >> Yeah. >> You know that that's how people most people probably live their life, you know, with their personal finances,

maybe, you know, a rainy day account, emergency funds, and things like that. And construction is the same because that's how commercial construction works. Um, you know, any business with

volatile markets.

But I I I don't say that to scare people. I just say that to be like, you know, when you're working with people, value people that set realistic

expectations, >> right? And I think and I think also with that, it's uh like transparency on all

accounts, right? Like we we probably all had those clients who are like, "Okay,

I've got like I had one who was like, "We got 700,000 for this edition, but

here's what we want." Right? So, I do really early stuff, design it up, and it

comes out. I mean, this was crazy. I knew it was going to be way, but it was like 2.7, right? And I was like, "Okay,

that's a lot." And then they're like, "Actually, we can do 2.3,

you know?" And it's like, "That's a big difference between seven and 2.3." Like, a part of it is, >> you know, like

I can, right? I can a lot of people can

design some really cool things, right? But if I'm designing for 700,

it's not going to be as cool. And if they're like, "Oh, that's not cool." My ego is like, "Oh, okay, baby. Here, let's let's turn this up and and do it how you actually want." And then it might be 2.7. >> And but then it's like, but then that

gets me in the head space of like, well, most clients probably have more than that than than they're saying they do, right? Which isn't a good spot to be in either. >> Yeah. and and so it's kind of so I'm always

I'm always kind of designing for that top end of their budget. Um but a lot of times it's because that

budget is set $400 a square foot or

something, right? That's that's unrealistic. So >> I also think that's human nature though, right? Because

you know I I always think about the hardest part of this business is sometimes it's my job to say no to people. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> I'm you know especially when I'm telling people that you know someone we're trying to focus on in the brand is that

>> yes we might build homes we might do this or that but a real service that we're providing is an is being an advocate being a guide. And at the end of the day, no matter whether it's building this, discussing finances, navigating, purchasing a lot, or whatever it might be, our job is to give the best possible information that aligns with the directives of the client, advocate for them in all situations. And that's a trust thing,

number one. But number two is

if you're going to

be doing that at certain points, you're going to inherently give people information they don't want to hear. It's so easy. This would be the easiest business in the world. It's like, "Oh yeah, you got you got $100,000.

Build you that 12,000 foot mansion on the top of Flagstaff in Boulder. No worries. I could sell that all day." But

if you go, "Hey, here's your budget. Here's the realistic numbers. You know what? We probably has to do some scope, you know, work. Adjust this. Hey, what's our risk tolerance here? What's our timet? Oh, we have to do you need in this because of family constraints. Maybe, you know, you have some something special, a wedding coming up. You know what? Cliche project triangle. Is it

cost uh speed or quality you want to

give up, >> right? >> In my opinion, it should be always time. But those are the realistic conversations where you're constantly

pulling the reinss back while still asking people to have fun. It's a hard thing. I think it's an art form. I also think it is based in

education. And that's why for me getting

in early and choosing the client over

the project because if the client values that experience, the outcome of like what you actually build is the second product in a way.

you know, if they felt that you were always in their corner backing them, you know, really coming up with the best possible version of what their means could provide, that's the that that is a situation you could succeed in. But how can you give

somebody more for less? That's a really hard one.

>> Yeah, I agree. And I mean I think it

it's it's it's it really comes down to

trust, right? Of how do you build that?

And it is interesting of like, you know,

we're we're asking people for a lot of money and for a long relationship

and and how are they building up that trust

in you, right? Like I think, you know, I

I I structure my contract so that there's a concept phase that's earlier on that is less of the fee, right? And

so it's sort of like a little bit of a dating period where they don't necessarily have to sign up for the whole thing. And

no, no one's ever turned me down for the second date yet. So feel good about it.

But um but it is you know even for a contractor um yeah how how are you building how are

you building that trust

yeah I mean

I think it's marketing right is

education and

>> you're dipping your toes heavy into the marketing world right now is it are you

doing the educational front or are you doing the I >> think maybe real estate model of fancy

showpieces. Look what I can do. Look what I've done kind of thing. >> Yeah, I think you know I I hired a a

um

what do we call her? Content creator, social media manager. I mean, she's

she's fantastic. But and and so, you

know, but the the push was to

um yeah, how do we how do we educate and

how do we get people more comfortable with me before they come to me, right? And I think that um like as you know,

I'm a professor, I like to to teach. I

like to kind of put information out

there in the world. And it's like, yeah, how do we how do we do that more in a way that's different from some other architects? And that kind of and that really is how are we pulling the curtain

behind the process uh in a in a in a

meaningful way >> and you've been putting out a decent amount of stuff. Have you have

this stuff takes time? Have have you started to feel it at all? Like you know

via feedback or clients or anything?

>> No. And I think I think that's where it's like the it takes patience. I mean, I think that, you know, in three months

I've like my followers have gone up by,

you know, it went up 30% or something like that. So, and that it's gone up.

Um, but, you know, with with the clients

that we're after, it takes a lot of touch points and it they don't move fast, right? Um, >> yeah. And so, so I think it is a it is a

slower it is a slower thing and it's always hard to know like what's relating what what are people related to. Is it is it your website? Is it something you see on social media? Is it what their

cousin told them about you? You know, is

it just Yeah, who knows, right? But

probably all the above. >> Yeah. Um I worked for

this was when I was getting just started back up. um guy who he worked for one of

the big marketing firms in Manhattan and

uh he was kind enough after the project

to kind of help me with some consulting stuff and he actually had a friend who was a brand scientist and helped me

develop the whole Fernhell model and it

was really interesting because I think

his training was to find data sets to

reference to and I remember specifically

having a beer with him and him just saying you know, you it's tough because there's no there's no cohesive like marketing center for the residential

construction space. It's too many too

diversified in, you know, small businesses and stuff like that. But in his mind, the the closest thing was buying a luxury car.

>> And there he was able to find a bunch of

different, you know, studies and stuff like that. and he said that the consumer

journey on average for a luxury car was

six to 12 months and

>> I don't know if you've ever heard that you know the seven touch points to buy a good in service >> right >> he's like throw that out the window he's like you might as well think it's a hundred and I was like oh wow okay so

what do I do based off that and he goes

simple trust brand >> you just need to constantly be pushing people through a funnel and look at each stage of that funnel as being they trust you a little more, they trust you a little more, they trust you a little more until the point that they're like, we already know they, you know, I think it's something like 75% of people already have made their purchase decision before ever opening the web page or, you know, making a phone call now. And I think it's not far off that

in the building industry. Um, >> yeah. >> Or at least it's going towards that more and more. You know, whether it's via what they heard from a referral and or

if it's, you know, they became aware of you, maybe saw your sign, and now they've been watching you on YouTube, Instagram, and they go, "Hey, that Adam guy, you know, I can tell he's going to take really, really good care of us. I know that, you know, I might not get this. I might get that." But that's him doing his job. That's that's I understand why it's going to be that. Like, that's the next phase of it all. And I I so I've I look at that as being

like, "Okay, man, you got to like pull somebody in for a year before they might call." >> Right. Right. Yeah. Or they just think,

"Man, this guy spends way too much time on videos. He probably doesn't actually design much." But No, but I was I was

going to say that with with I mean, you know, it is crazy with, you know, if cars take that long to purchase, >> you know, you're not even designing the car, right? like you're design we're we're designing this car from scratch >> and so much longer. But I do think like

you know you as well have been making

just fantastic videos and and content

and stuff and and it does take takes a

lot of time. It takes a lot of money and

takes a lot of patience to keep that

going. And you know I commend you on

like having a vision for the brand and like okay I'm I'm pushing this forward. I'm doing all these other outside things. when I could be doing other stuff, right? And it it it's probably

not easy, right? >> No. No. That's why I got a backlog of

I don't even know how many hours of footage and podcasts and all that stuff. So, um >> But you got a lot of stuff checked off behind you on the board. So, that's good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I don't even have time to check off the ones that I all the other ones that I actually did. >> Exactly. >> I do. Camera just moved to to Yeah. Crop

it off. Yeah. Go. >> Oh, there. Smart. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, no. I, you know,

the marketing thing I'm always torn on. Um,

I have my own ambitions for it, I think, that are a little bit more diversified than maybe just being the builder, which I'm sure there's other people that have opinions on that, which whatever. Um,

but I was actually talking to Michael who works for me. Michael's, you know,

the older generation. He's old school. And to him this marketing it's just what

do you mean you they found you where?

Like what do like how is that even possible? And I said if you believe in

something that you you know you have a good product

you know if you don't tell somebody that because there's somebody out there that's looking for that highle product.

It's like what are we doing here then? you know, I I'm I'm looking to find one of one, a client who wants to build in a

certain type of way with a certain value proposition and stuff like that. And if everyone's just walking through the force in silence and in darkness, you know, that's a pretty crappy industry. And so I at the very least,

I'm going to do this. I'm going to put myself out there so people can make their own decisions about whether or not they want to work with me. And if they don't, I I I respect it and I appreciate

like going through that process with people because it should be a two-way street. It has to be. But if people are

misinterpreting what we do and

potentially more importantly what we don't do, I feel like I have a responsibility in the modern age to at

least put content out there that clarifies. >> Ah, right. one at least. I mean, it it

is interesting of of the of this sort of old school approach of do good work, you

get you get return customers, you get

referrals, you get word of mouth, and you get more projects, right? And like especially talking to someone older who's been doing it for a while. It's like that that works, right? Like for

us, it's like, hey, that's not working

fast enough. like you know like I was I

was sitting there a year and a half ago or whatever and won the architect of the year and I don't know if I had like a billable project you know and I was like this this this was supposed to bring all this stuff in and it's not right and and

so now I have a business coach I have

like tons of different a pretty wide top

of funnel with a lot of different strategies going on in the background and I'm getting a lot of projects right now but I'm not taking my foot off the

gas, right? And it's like I might be getting too busy, but it's like, you know, you can see that in another generation of of, hey, you're good.

Like, like just keep keep grooving with this one contractor, keep doing this. And uh uh but and I think that I think that'll

work, right? like if we kept grinding like it that would work but but to

really be able to position yourself for the exact clients and exact projects that you want seems like this is the way I think it's

like what hearing you describe that it's brand equity you're in search of you know you want it to be that people are aware of what you do who you are what you what your product and service is and

I think that there's a

steep curve to the amount of effort that goes into, you know, asserting yourself

into the market. Nowadays, it's not like the old days where nobody has a foothold

on the market or nobody has like, you

know, it's not the wild west anymore. Um, there's companies that have been established here for 30, 40 years, 20

years maybe. And

in order to you, you know, you're not just going to leapfrog that and get a hold of the marketplace to be able to do what you might be best at if you don't

provide that value proposition in a way that people can actually make a consumer

decision. And I

I'm sure people go, oh, you know, go figure, the young person's doing a podcast, shooting video, all this kind of stuff. But number one, I think it

makes me actually a better builder because it definitely makes me think a heck of a lot about the way we do things and I also learn a lot from other people via it and the community that even my

clients benefit from I think as a result of it. It's really hard to put a finger on. So >> yeah. >> No, I totally agree. And and I think I think even more of just again this sort

of like pulling the curtain back, right? like this is it's a complicated process

uh that not a lot of people know the whole ins and out of and it's really it could be really fun and there's a lot of cool stuff going on, right? And so it's like how how do you how do you share that, right? And just take the little bit more effort to document what we're doing and to to share the the process.

Um >> I had a client tell me something funny.

>> Oh, probably not funny. Hopefully we'll laugh about it in few years, but I was

on in the precon process early and they

started designing way past their budget.

And I just actually remember uh after a

meeting one time, they were talking and

I I just about the latest round of estimated cost of completion and I go, you know, I just want you guys to tell me like we're okay with this sitting here. We need to all come together and you know cuz if you don't communicate this to the person with the pen right now there's going to be a fundamental problem like they are going to continue down this road. So either we say >> you see this extra zero at the end right you see that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And

what she told me was she looks back on

what happened post that moment as being

a little bit bit ironically funny

because we were talking about taking out a shower niche or something like that. you know, a few thousand dollars here or there or, you know, adjusting. Are we

doing miter folds on this or are we doing a, you know, an exposed whatever and those were like small items when the reality was that the we weren't ready

for everything. We forced it early and

what that ended up causing was for the schedule to get drawn out because certain ideas weren't vetted all the way through. you know, constructibility had to, you know, follow suit once that did happen. She's like, "But schedule drives

budget like I always say." And she said

that and she's like, "You know what's really annoying? I've watched some of your content. You talk about that." I

have to say that was a hard one to listen to because, you know, they look at our management line as being built by the week and then, you know, we might have like the project at a stall because we don't have this thing figured out. We're waiting on this concept from here or there. you know, oh, that means that we have to source it from this location, not that one. And okay, now that's going to drive us out, you know, 12 working days, and we'll put an extra three of contingency in there. And then she looks at that and she goes, that's what we should have been talking about, not a shower niche. Like, we should have just stayed where we were and just been like, we're going to really think about that shower niche. And to hear her say that,

but then also recognize that it was something you were trying, you know, through marketing trying to talk about,

it kind of made me hope that if say that

same client in a different world or that we hadn't worked together before was to come to me but see that content that

maybe they would be more willing to bring the team together and be like, "Hey, hey, hey, I understand now. This

is how we have to go." And so there is a

part of it that I think if done correctly benefits everyone involved.

>> Yep. >> Yeah. And and and and it kind of goes back to

like Yeah. I mean I have like a

Q&A thing on my website with a bunch of

blog things that has a bunch of information, you know, on it, but I kind

of just assume nobody ever looks at it, right? and it but it has a lot of good information and it's kind of the same way in in terms of those videos of like you're creating a lot of information there. Um, and and it's always in my

head I'm always like, "Okay, well, yeah, what's that next deck or that next package that I need to put together of here's what you need to know about building a home and does it need to be five pages so that it's digestible or

should it be 60 pages to ch show them

everything, right? And it's like which which one of those avenues is going to

be the one that that wins that trust

over for your client, right? Uh, and

which of those like extra efforts are you doing that is actually gonna

capitalize on something? And most of the time you don't know which one it is, right? Uh, but but but again kind of

just like that it seems seems like just

being being honest and working hard and

and and putting information out like it doesn't it it never hurts, right? I mean, it might it might hurt your like bleep amount or uh time with family or something like that, the amount of time you're putting into it, but >> it doesn't hurt the business, I guess. >> No, no, no. And um I think also I'm sure

you would agree with this.

I think I as a business owner, you probably put way too much in it to rely

on somebody else just randomly finding

you. you know, you you you in order to

be good at building or designing,

you have to take a lot of pride in it.

And I think to take that amount of pride

and invest so much of yourself into it and then just be like, well,

somebody finds it, somebody finds it. Somebody doesn't find it, somebody doesn't find it. It's like, no, put my

life into this, you know, and I'm sure

as hell going to give it a shot, you know, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but it's not going to be because I didn't put it out there.

So, >> yeah. Um, >> well, what else you got going on now?

>> Um, you got some exciting stuff coming

up. I know you said you're too too busy. You're not taking on projects. Is that what I heard? I'm always taking on projects. No, you know, I think uh it's it's it's

been such a struggle for me the last I don't know four years to get anything built or especially of consequence. And

so >> we have um a house breaking ground

outside Netherlands

next month. Beautiful. So that's that's really exciting. Yeah, that's >> and the render is amazing. >> Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, that's, you know,

when you can't get stuff built, you you learn how to make really good renderings, so it tricks people into thinking you have stuff built. >> But but yeah, we have that. And then we we're almost through permanent on another cool project in uh in Cherry

Hills Village um that that uh will be

built soon. So, I think that's that's opening up a whole new new door. That's that's pretty cool. And then um yeah,

we've just got a flood of new um

inquiries and and starting to sign up

sign up new houses here. So um >> yeah, >> it's the exciting time. Uh just kind of

hold on and see what happens and see who

we need to hire and how we hire and grow

the team. So yeah, >> proper businessman. >> Getting there. >> I thought you were an academic.

I'm I'm academically a businessman. I'm

theoretically a businessman theor, you know, I made.

>> Yeah. I um No, I'm This is kind of my

faith where I'm I'm I'm buckling down and trying to get stuff built and

>> Yeah. >> Uh trying to see stuff go through and and

buckle down. Um,

yeah. So, it's been been fun.

>> I think Yeah, I think I think especially 25 the middle of 25 was pretty slow in terms of new builds and new new inquiries coming,

but then it it's really taken off since then. >> I think everyone felt that. And I think, you know, >> yeah, that's what I've been hearing. Going back to the marketing thing, the part that the way I've looked at it is that, you know, everyone still needs the

same slice or, you know, size slice of

the pie in order to satisfy the means of the company, their personal needs and all that. It just happens to be that when the economy is in that kind of condition, the pie as a whole is smaller, you know, aka the market. So

therefore, you actually need a bigger percentage of that pie to have the same size slice. And it makes it interesting

how people then I think choose to interact, you know, within the industry, number one. And then number two, everyone kind of gets a little quiet about whether or not they have work, don't have work, you know, as busy as you want. >> And uh I don't think I could ever be as busy as I want. But, you know, everyone feels that. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that is an interesting

thing of like how how vulnerable do you

be versus like, you know, fake it till you make it sort of thing. and and uh I always sort of fall on the more

vulnerable uh maybe overly honest side.

Um but yeah, you know, it's it's it's

just about the process and it's about

how the highs and the lows and how you navigate it and how you

move forward with a smile on your face.

I guess

>> it all it you know this too shall pass.

I always keep reminding myself that with you know the it's like every company experiences ups and downs in the economy especially if you're in this industry you know it's more a question of how you

experience those ups and downs as opposed to whether or not you actually do and I actually truth be told look at

it as an opportunity because if I can be

more lean and be more efficient in our

product and still deliver at a very high level but then be in tandem investing those that money back into the company whether it be via processes, technology, marketing.

You know, the question is when the the coin does drop and the market goes back up, which side of that would you like to

be on? Um, would you like to have the momentum in your corner or just hanging

on for the coattails? So, um, and if

anything, I I'd like to think that via all of this, you know, it also means that, uh, what's that saying? Uh, you know, everyone rises together. Um, yeah,

>> the tides rise. All boats, rising tides,

>> pick up and slam boats around. >> I feel like it's even stuff like this or like the community development type things and, you know, some of the stuff

with the trade partners that, you know, you align yourself with good great people that want to all invest with each other. And so then when there are these dips, it actually is an opportunity for all of those good people that you know you're sticking true to and then maybe being vulnerable with to rise together.

And and so you it's almost a necessary

thing at a certain point. >> Yeah. G give me um the funniest story of

something that happened on site the last few months. Oh, >> you heard about the 120 mph winds?

>> Yeah. >> How'd that do for you? >> I had a porta potty that was staked

down, tied down, and had sandbags in it

>> and had a 280lb guy in it. >> Yeah. >> Fly across the street and his

contractor's truck. >> Yeah. >> I When I got the phone call, I thought it was a joke. like what? He's like, and they're like, "Yeah, I'm like I literally had the crew there like putting I have photos of everything. This is insane." I'm like, "Yeah, I mean, this thing I mean, the puns for like three weeks are endless."

>> Uh, but yeah, I I literally had

>> I want to see a video of that just of of of the puns of >> like a like a like a picture of it hitting the truck and then just like the like puns like rolling over the top of it as a as a real I'm not that good at

editing. Uh well, that same street I we

did a project down there uh like maybe two blocks down uh a year or two ago and

I remember the portaotty got dropped off. I get the notification and then I go there the next day to go, you know, take a photo, document it, whatever, say, "Yep, it's where we want it to be." And I'm looking around like, "Where the hell is this porta buddy?" And looking

all over, there's nothing here. I'm calling, nobody answers. I'm like, "Yeah, you guys put it at the wrong house or something." thing and this person's walking by with their dog and goes, "Are you looking for someone?" Like, "I'm actually looking for a porta potty." And they they just point like a

block down and around the corner here. It blew over and the wind just took it all the way down and it kind of went around the corner to where I couldn't see it from the house. I was like, "Holy

like, it's no joke. >> Holy >> Holy shit." >> Yeah. >> Quite literally. >> Oh, that's a good one. >> That's a good one. What about you? Any crazy uh >> crazy moments? >> Do I have anything? Um

>> no, man. I I I feel I I've been like

traveling lately and uh I was in Costa

Rica last weekend with >> nice >> four other couples, no kids. And then the weekend before that, my wife's working on the his design the airport in

TA since we went to TA and uh got a got

a day uh snowboarding in. But speaking

of wind, that was so crazy that they

shut the resort down and all the lifts

at noon. uh because the wind and stuff.

I mean, I had like, you know, like the white out conditions where you totally just have to drop to the ground cuz I

lost all my direction and everything.

>> Um and so we just, you know, left at

noon and then went to some hot springs. So, you know, it wasn't that bad, but >> life could be worse. >> Yeah, life could be. >> Now I have a lot of work to do to catch up on that. Um >> Yeah, the other side of it. >> Yeah. >> I just had clients fly in from North Carolina. uh for some design meetings and they're but they're here to ski like that was and we're >> doing it all in tandem to two birds one

stone like go you know I feel so bad

they we were even joking with them but they have a place in Vil I think so it's

not like they are renting a place or something like that which is crazy expensive and I'm like you know I feel so bad when you see these people at the airport getting off you know coming to have the skiing of their life and I'm like this is tropical Colorado right now. Yeah. Good luck. >> I'm working on my tan most days. >> In the garage. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Seriously. >> Um >> well, all right, dude. I appreciate it.

>> Um we'll have to make this a thing. And

every time you need a vent, you just tell me hop on hop on. >> This is fun.